Whiskey Web and Whatnot

A whiskey fueled fireside chat with your favorite web developers.


63: Supabase, Logflare, and Offroading with Chase Granberry

Show Notes

Chase Granberry can be called a serial entrepreneur. He bootstrapped his first software company before selling it and starting the centralized logging service, Logflare.

Chase sold the company to Supabase and joined the team as an acquired hire to support the team with a centralized logging solution and plotting insights for customers. Chase explains where Supabase is really different from Firebase and some of the benefits you can get from its flexibility combined with real-time data.

In this episode, Chase talks to Chuck and Robbie about joining Supabase after the Logflare acquisition, what makes Supabase different from Firebase, and offroading old cars. 

Key Takeaways

  • [00:26] - An introduction to Chase Granberry.
  • [03:14] - A whiskey review - Togouchi 3-Year Blended Japanese Whiskey.
  • [14:40] - How Supabase got its name.
  • [15:45] - The biggest difference between Supabase and Firebase.
  • [17:19] - How Chase feels about writing PHP.
  • [18:16] - Aspects of Supabase written in Elixir.
  • [21:21] - Frameworks that Chase uses to write his interface.
  • [29:36] - Upcoming Supabase features.
  • [32:44] - How Chase maintains his hobbies as a father.
  • [35:19] - Chase, Chuck, and Robbie talk about classic cars.


[16:26] - “We’re open source, and it's Postgres. So it’s a SQL database, not a no SQL database, and you can ultimately do whatever you want with it.” ~ Chase Granberry

[19:59] - “All these things are independent and could live on their own but tied together in a package, I think, is what really makes Supabase interesting.” ~ Chase Granberry

[24:09] - “In reality, how much Javascript do we really need on a page? In 95 percent of cases, it’s honestly not that much.” ~ Chase Granberry



Robbie Wagner: [00:09] What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another Whiskey Web and Whatnot with myself, Robert William Wagner, and my co-host, as always, Charles William Carpenter III, with our guest today, Chase Granberry. What's going on, Chase?

Chase Granberry: [00:24] Hi, hi.

Robbie Wagner: [00:25] So Chase is from something you folks may have heard of called Supabase. But before we get too much into what exactly that is and the ins and outs of that, Chase, do you want to give people a little intro into who you are and what you do?

Chase Granberry: [00:39] Yeah. I am from Phoenix, Arizona. Was born and raised here, currently live here, just kind of been involved in the internet for a long time. Today's my birthday, actually.

Chuck Carpenter: [00:51] Happy birthday. Nice.

Chase Granberry: [00:52] Thank you. Just turned 40. So I'm old. Especially in internet years. And a long time ago, I started a software company that bootstrapped here was like an internet marketing campaign, basically online advertising, SEO. We tracked SEO campaigns for clients, so we had software that interactive ad agencies would use, and brands would use to track the success of their SEO campaigns. And then I sold that a few years ago and was trying to figure out what was next and kind of had this idea for centralized logging service called Logflare. Started that and ended up basically like, kind of acquire hire, like Supabase kind of acquire hired me and Logflare, and I've been at Supabase for a year just about this month doing I just collect logs and try and do observability stuff and try and get logs into the Supabase dashboard and charts in there. And hopefully, we'll have we should have more of that actually dropping very soon. We got another launch week coming up in like three weeks. So there should be some new stuff dropping then. And yeah, just try and support the team with kind of like this centralized logging solution and try and plot insights for customers on how their Postgres database and then the services that Supabase offers above that. And on top of that, just try and give them insights into how that's all working.

Chuck Carpenter: [02:40] That's one hell of an elevator pitch. You like to track things, and really this is the pivot from your original desire to be a private investigator. That was it, right?

Chase Granberry: [02:50] Yes.

Chuck Carpenter: [02:51] Track things. Find out where they came from.

Chase Granberry: [02:53] Exactly.

Chuck Carpenter: [02:54] And deliver on that.

Chase Granberry: [02:56] Well, my last CTO actually would just tell you that I like to stare at charts all day. And I happen to then build software to help people, like, stare at charts all day.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:07] Yeah, make charts, look at the charts, create custom charts.

Chase Granberry: [03:10] Yeah, totally.

Chuck Carpenter: [03:12] All right, we'll dig more into that stuff here in a little bit. In celebratory mode. I think we should get to the whiskey parts. As you mentioned, it is your birthday, but you still look younger than Robbie. So it's cool. Today. And I know I will probably ruin any pronunciation of this because I had it before, but Togouchi. Is that what you're going with? Togouchi? I think it's a little edgier accent there, but we'll go with it. Aged at least three years. 80 proof. A lot of Scotch is going to be a little bit lower-proof. So that Tracks. Says it's matured in tunnels at a constant temperature of 57. Listen to you. 57 degrees and a humidity of 80%. This whiskey is a blend of lightly wheated malt and grain to suit the Japanese palate. Hopefully, ours, too. I'll let you go first with it, Chase, or as much as you like. The whole bottle in there.

Chase Granberry: [04:10] You gave me, like.

Robbie Wagner: [04:11] Fill it up.

Chase Granberry: [04:12] An actual glass.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:13] Yeah, it's a water-sized glass for those who don't see any video here on this, and it's just because that's the option we have here in the coworking space. I have my small Glencairn. I learned today that I'm not good at giving set-up instructions to our guests. So Chase already had to go back one time to get some headphones, have him come back another time to get a proper glass. Nobody cares.

Chase Granberry: [04:38] A lot of good nose on this glass, for sure.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:42] Just means he can drink a lot of it and walk home.

Chase Granberry: [04:46] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:46] Yeah. There you go. You're not messing around.

Robbie Wagner: [04:48] This is a very light.

Chuck Carpenter: [04:50] We can say here you're not fucking around. It is it is very light in color. So it's only three years, or at least three years, as they say. So for Scotch, I'd say that's pretty young, especially since they're usually in used barrels. So you're not going to get as much of all of that.

Robbie Wagner: [05:08] Maybe it's so light because it stays in tunnels all the time. You can't go outside and get tanned.

Chase Granberry: [05:13] Crisp, clean.

Chuck Carpenter: [05:16] Very light on the smell. Not getting a lot on the nose of it, but I get a little like yeah, I'm used to a peatyness or a smokiness from a Japanese whiskey, even as you get with a Scotch. And this one, not at all. Yeah. My best adjectives or descriptors is a little bit banana peels. I got a little banana peel in the beginning.

Robbie Wagner: [05:36] Yeah. On the nose, for sure. I think to me, it tastes kind of like sake.

Chase Granberry: [05:43] Yeah, I can see that. I was going to say it's almost like there's not much, I mean, there's flavor, but it kind of goes away very quickly, and you're left with.

Chase Granberry: [05:54] Yeah. I would say that it has a little bit like I got a little say in the banana peel and getting into more of like the sweetness that you would get from a sake. It's got a little burn but nothing crazy. So I know it's there. It's around. It's not just sake.

Chase Granberry: [06:11] Fun fact, did you know that we have a guy in Arizona who brews? I don't know if they call it brewing sake, but he makes probably don't call it brewing sake. He makes sake here, and he was voted the best sake maker outside of Japan in the whole world.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:31] Really? I didn't know this.

Chase Granberry: [06:32] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:33] Okay.

Chase Granberry: [06:33] And it's very good.

Chuck Carpenter: [06:36] Yeah. We'll find out exactly what it is in real-time. So yes, here's the thing, the big thing with a lot of normal, or at least like bourbon, rye, maturation, it's about the change in seasons and the change in weather so that the barrels can kind of flex and grow with the changes of the season. So it will draw a little more juice into the barrel, pushes it more back out as the temperatures change. And with this being at a consistent temperature, I bet that's a lot of why you don't get a lot of brown in the juice itself and why it probably has a kind of simple smoothness to it.

Chase Granberry: [07:15] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [07:16] Interesting. I don't know what humidity would have to do with that at all.

Chase Granberry: [07:20] Yeah, I really don't know how any of it works. I just like to drink it usually.

Chuck Carpenter: [07:24] That's fair. Yeah. I'm just trying to seem like less of an alcoholic. I've been on so many distillery tours that I just know how it all works just because I'm trying to get to the tastings. You know, you just learn secondhandedly.

Robbie Wagner: [07:40] Do you know if this was 57 degrees Fahrenheit or Celsius?

Chuck Carpenter: [07:46] I don't know, but I got that. I think I found that through the total wine site. Like that specific information. So it's like part of their official marketing blurb. Otherwise, everything on the bottle is in other languages that I don't read. So that's an excellent question. I am not certain.

Robbie Wagner: [08:01] Yeah, because if it's 57 Celsius, that's really hot in 80% humidity. It's like a steam room that it's in the whole time.

Chuck Carpenter: [08:08] And I can't imagine that's a good thing. So wines tend to get served in the 50-something degree range, so I'm thinking it's more that.

Robbie Wagner: [08:18] Yeah, okay.

Chuck Carpenter: [08:19] But excellent question. I like where your head is at. So we have a very technical scale. I know you've probably listened to every episode of this podcast, but in case you forgot very technical rating scale. Just for fun kind of thing. It's tentacles because we have an octopus as our logo. And so one to eight, we've started like categorizing the whiskey based on, like we might say, oh, we've tried a few Japanese ones. So in the realm of Japanese and the realm of Scotch and all that kind of stuff, feel free to do whatever you want. Who cares? Put a lump them all together or staying specific to this style of whiskey. But we'll say one is the worst thing you've ever had. Eight is the most amazing thing. I'm going to never drink anything else. And then everything in between can occur there. It's just kind of a fun way for us to note, like, how we felt about it at the time. Maybe we come back later on and revise that. Or as things open up a little bit.

Chase Granberry: [09:13] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:14] I'll kick it off. For me, in the sense of Japanese whiskey, I think it is a little bit refreshing, which is different and weird for me for straight whiskey. And I think it just lacks like it's not memorable, really, in any way.

Chase Granberry: [09:31] It lacks a little depth.

Chuck Carpenter: [09:32] Yeah, it lacks some depth. It lacks, like, eh, it's not bad.

Chase Granberry: [09:37] It's very good. I could just casually sip it and not, but if you put any ice in there whatsoever and it melts, it's basically water at that point, right?

Chuck Carpenter: [09:47] Exactly.

Robbie Wagner: [09:47] Yeah. But there's something to be said for 40% alcohol, and it being like, this is basically water. Someone did a good job of that.

Chase Granberry: [09:56] That's true. That's a very good point.

Chuck Carpenter: [10:00] This is basically the vodka of Japanese whiskey. We make it so smooth and clean. It's like, the better the vodka, the better than that is. So in that sense, I'm going to say a five. For me, it's a five. It's like, oh, this is an interesting thing. I can't imagine ever, like, going to, like, a nice restaurant or bar or something and saying, like, yeah, I want to get this to sip while I'm here, but maybe if it's kind of warm out and then you're still a little late, or I don't know, around the fire maybe, and you're like, smokey. I want something very light and refreshing.

Chase Granberry: [10:34] Or if it's hot out.

Chuck Carpenter: [10:36] As it is often for us.

Chase Granberry: [10:38] Exactly.

Chuck Carpenter: [10:39] So I can see it's, like, it's kind of warm sunshine. But it's December. I'll have a little of this.

Chase Granberry: [10:44] Yeah, I like that.

Chuck Carpenter: [10:46] Do you want to go, Chase?

Chase Granberry: [10:47] Yeah. Five, I feel like, is a good number. I was actually thinking six. I do like it, and it's got enough bite where I think there's enough character to it, but I really do like how kind of refreshing it drinks.

Chuck Carpenter: [11:06] Yeah. So along the lines of my poor instructions and information, Chase had brought his own bottle in. He was ready to party, and I was like, well, you could save that for yourself. We're going to provide for you, don't worry. So do you normally drink Scotches?

Chase Granberry: [11:22] I do.

Chuck Carpenter: [11:22] Okay.

Chase Granberry: [11:23] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [11:23] That's your jam.

Chase Granberry: [11:24] I mean, I really actually don't drink even a whole lot of different Scotches. This Balvenie Caribbean Cask is, like, my favorite, and it's kind of the perfect amount, but it's kind of perfect. Like, there's enough sweetness to it where it's nice, I think, and it's not too, like, in your face.

Chuck Carpenter: [11:43] Yeah. Nice.

Robbie Wagner: [11:45] Yeah. You guys know the hint waters that are, like, flavored water that tastes like berries or whatever?

Chuck Carpenter: [11:54] No.

Robbie Wagner: [11:55] Okay.

Chase Granberry: [11:55] I mean, the fizzy ones, kind of the carbonated ones.

Robbie Wagner: [11:59] No, they're not fizzy. But there so hint is like there's just a hint of the flavor in there. So it's like you're drinking like this is normal water. This is normal water. And, like, a minute later, you're like, wait, is that blackberry? I feel like that's what this is like. This is like this is water. This is water. Wait, is that like a Scotch?

Chuck Carpenter: [12:16] So they're like the Lacroix of still waters, and this is.

Chase Granberry: [12:24] I was like, have I been saying that wrong all along?

Chuck Carpenter: [12:28] Yeah, it's like saying Target. Yeah, they're a Wisconsin company.

Chase Granberry: [12:32] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [12:33] It's LaCroix, dammit.

Robbie Wagner: [12:35] But yeah, I would say I really admire that they somehow did that. This tastes like water, but at the same time, I don't enjoy it because it tastes like water. So I think for the props of this is I respect what you did. I'll give it a five, but if I were going purely on taste, I would say, like, two. I probably wouldn't drink it because it just tastes like water.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:01] You want a gut punch on what you're putting in your body. Okay, fair enough.

Robbie Wagner: [13:06] I like ryes. I want it to be like, I just took a big handful of peppercorns and whiskey and put it in my mouth.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:15] We're going to do that the next episode. Peppercorn is whiskey. And then we're going to watch you, and we drink real things.

Chase Granberry: [13:22] Okay.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:23] Wow. We should pivot some real.

Chase Granberry: [13:26] That would be like, what are you supposed to put in your, like, a spoonful of something. Oh, like cinnamon.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:34] Oh yea the cinnamon challenge?

Chase Granberry: [13:35] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [13:36] That's impossible. No, I've watched people try it. It doesn't go well.

Chase Granberry: [13:41] I actually have never seen that in person.

Chuck Carpenter: [13:43] I haven't either. I don't think I'd be friends with those people who are willing to do that at this point.

Chase Granberry: [13:49] Yeah. It sounds miserable.

Robbie Wagner: [13:52] Did you ever try the saltine challenge?

Chuck Carpenter: [13:56] It's like a sleeve of saltines or something?

Robbie Wagner: [13:58] No, you have to eat eight in a minute. I think something like that, which sounds.

Chase Granberry: [14:03] Not that many, and it's surprisingly difficult. I think I've tried it or somebody. I think I have been around somebody who's tried it.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:10] What about the 50 eggs in an hour? 50 hard-boiled eggs in an hour.

Robbie Wagner: [14:14] Oh, God.

Chase Granberry: [14:15] Hard-boiled eggs make me want to throw up anyway.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:18] I mean, maybe I'm dating myself, but Cool Hand Luke, you've seen that movie?

Chase Granberry: [14:22] No.

Chuck Carpenter: [014:23] So that's, like, one of the things in there where he's kind of like he gets a little respect.

Chase Granberry: [14:27] Okay.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:27] I can eat 50 eggs. 50 hard-boiled eggs in an hour.

Robbie Wagner: [14:31] I could eat 50 wings in an hour.

Chase Granberry: [14:34] That seems doable.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:36] I don't think I can do that.

Robbie Wagner: [14:38] Much tastier than hard-boiled eggs.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:40] Yes. So did Paul ever tell you where the name Supabase? Like, why is it Supabase? Like, he liked, supa fly.

Chase Granberry: [14:49] I think they just think it sounds cool.

Chuck Carpenter: [14:51] Yeah, just somehow got there.

Chase Granberry: [14:55] I mean, it's like a database, but it's super. It's like a super database. It's like your database, but it's a super version of your database.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:04] And then you're like, super is just a little like that's not fun to say.

Chase Granberry: [15:07] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:08] And you can make good swag out of that.

Chase Granberry: [15:10] Totally.

Robbie Wagner: [15:11] You can get Nicki Minaj endorsements.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:13] Oh, is that a thing?

Robbie Wagner: [15:15] Yeah, super bass.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:16] Yeah. No.

Chase Granberry: [15:17] Is it?

Chuck Carpenter: [15:18] I have not heard, oh, that's a song. I don't know. I don't have her songs memorized.

Chase Granberry: [15:22] Apparently, she has a song called Super Bass.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:25] Yeah, apparently.

Chase Granberry: [15:26] Okay, interesting.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:27] Is it all about that bass? No, no troubles.

Robbie Wagner: [15:30] Not that bass.

Chase Granberry: [15:31] What's funny is I started at Supabase, and evidently, I used to say super a lot. I catch myself saying super, and I was like, I work at Supabase. I can't say super.

Chuck Carpenter: [15:46] Yes. So obviously, you became involved with Supabase through a different avenue and product enhancement and all those kinds of things. So it's kind of a different thing. But you've probably been drinking your own dog food for a little while too, though.

Chase Granberry: [16:02] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:02] No way.

Robbie Wagner: [16:02] Drinking your own dog food.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:06] Eating your own dog food. Have another. Sorry.

Robbie Wagner: [16:08] Drinking the Kool-Aid.

Chuck Carpenter: [16:09] Two different thoughts. Drinking your own Kool-Aid, eating your own dog food. Thank you. I'm getting older, what can I say? But yeah, I know a lot of people who will just say, okay, how's that different than Firebase? What's the big differentiator there?

Chase Granberry: [16:25] I mean, frankly, the biggest differentiator is that we're open source, and it's Postgres, and so it's a SQL database, not a NoSQL database, and you can ultimately do whatever you want with it. Firebase, it's hard, like you set everything up in such a way, and then you get to a point, and then it's very difficult to go above and beyond that point. But with everything that we've set up, we think it's fairly easy to scale on, even if Supabase isn’t your cup of tea after a while, then the things that we built, A, they're open source, so you can take them and fork them and do what you will with them if you want, but the core of it is all Postgres. And so that's battle-tested. I'm a big fan of software that's been around a very long time and has staying power.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:21] Do you feel then you will be writing any PHP anytime soon?

Chase Granberry: [17:26] No, I hope not. No offense if you guys are PHP guys.

Chuck Carpenter: [17:33] I hear that things have become a lot better thanks to things like Laravel and whatnot, but.

Chase Granberry: [17:38] I have heard those things as well, but I just have never really gotten into it. Previous company was a Ruby thing and Rails thing, and then we were rewriting stuff in Elixir at the end of it. So that's how I got into the Elixir stuff, and it seemed to make sense for a logging sort of thing, and with the interface that I was building, like streaming stuff basically like a stream of logs. It was kind of Phoenix is a web framework, and it's like their default thing is a chat app, but a chat app all it is like a stream of things. So it was like, oh, this seems to make a lot of sense.

Chuck Carpenter: [18:17] Yeah. So is all of that within Supabase an Elixir thing, or is other bits in Elixir?

Chase Granberry: [18:23] So we have blog flares written in Elixir, and the real-time server is Elixir as well, which is Phoenix. And that's what listens to the right. That basically gives how much do you guys know about Supabase?

Robbie Wagner: [18:38] Well, regardless of what we know, we should tell our listeners many things about Supabase. Assume they know nothing.

Chuck Carpenter: [18:45] Yeah, you should always assume Robbie knows nothing. It's usually my basis of things. Yeah, so we did like a POC app internally, and we started looking at a different auth provider for a little bit, and then it just kind of made sense. Like, oh, wait a minute, Supabase can do not just the database side of things, but it's a really nice auth interface and user management interface and just simplifies that. And I like to have, like I don't want to rebuild the wheel every single time, especially in a POC kind of unless you're trying to learn a new technology, you're like.

Chase Granberry: [19:22] You probably built that or had to build it a dozen times before. Exactly. That's what most people really, I mean, if you look at the breakdown of most used, basically is like the rest API, which is because it's that it's your data, but then it's off, and then I think storage, and then I think real-time, what else is there.

Chuck Carpenter: [19:47] For now, and that's going to scale up and be the best part. But yeah, so you've got the best parts of all zero in terms of starting up a new app where you don't have to deal with that, and you're combining it with the database and real-time data.

Chase Granberry: [20:01] Yeah. The fact that all these things are like independent and could live on their own but tied together and kind of like a package, I think, is really what makes Supabase interesting. It's a platform, really, that you're working with, and you can take pieces that you need and use them, adopt them as you need them or not.

Chuck Carpenter: [20:24] Or take them all upfront. And then as you scale, if you decide you need a piecemeal, something that also feels pretty nice, you're not completely locked into the system, and you've got a couple of exits if you wanted to.

Chase Granberry: [20:36] It's basically already like it's spinning up, essentially. I guess you would call it a microservice for your data, and it's your whole back end really, but you could microservice it out when you get to that point.

Chuck Carpenter: [20:50] Actually, serverless functions are apart, too, right?

Chase Granberry: [20:53] Yeah, we just launched functions before summer, I believe it was the launch week before summer, and we actually just brought a guy in to focus really on those and improve the experience. So we've got the functions piece too. Still aren't serving like HTML yet, but I don't know when that's going to happen.

Chuck Carpenter: [21:17] Oh, there you go. Astro and Supabase. It could be the next stage.

Chase Granberry: [21:22] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [21:23] I don't know if you're familiar with tools like Astro.build. It's essentially like regressing to the ideology, and I actually probably shouldn't use the term regressing.

Robbie Wagner: [21:33] Because it's just doing it correctly.

Chuck Carpenter: [21:35] Just thinking about it again from a different context, because when we started separating all these things a bit more and saying single page applications for the thing because we want compute from our users versus compute on our servers, oh, maybe HTML is fine and we can serve that and then add interactivity.

Chase Granberry: [21:55] I should get into this now before I have too much more whiskey.

Chuck Carpenter: [21:59] Or both. Or both. I embarrass myself all the time so I don't think you can do any worse.

Chase Granberry: [22:05] I spent a lot of money rewriting my last interface and multiple front-end JavaScript frameworks. I regret every minute.

Chuck Carpenter: [22:13] Wait, what did you use?

Robbie Wagner: [22:16] Yeah, what did you use? Let's go with that.

Chase Granberry: [22:19] This was literally like the new shiny thing, Angular and Ember. Kind of like started the whole thing. I forget which one was first officially. And we did Angular first.

Robbie Wagner: [22:31] Nobody knows.

Chase Granberry: [22:33] And got about halfway through rewrite and changed their minds and then did Ember and got about 70% of the way through that. And then I sold the company.

Chuck Carpenter: [22:50] Someone else's problem.

Chase Granberry: [22:52] Exactly.

Robbie Wagner: [22:52] And then they converted it to React.

Chase Granberry: [22:54] Yeah, I'm, like, too old for React at this point.

Chuck Carpenter: [23:01] Probably like to start fresh, right? Because it's gone through its iterations. When I was at National Geographic, we had a Backbone application, and then I don't know if you remember Backbone.

Chase Granberry: [23:11] I remember Backbone. Yeah, we talked a lot about Backbone.

Chuck Carpenter: [23:14] Yeah. And then we did an Angular one app in some other property that was just a nightmare from start to finish. And then I remember discovering React and thinking it was so super cool. And the fact that I could scope it down to one small part of the page, I'm like, okay, I can deploy a login component that's reactive, and that's kind of all I care. And everything else can come from the server, and we can worry about all the other parts and start to add on to that. I feel like that's kind of what we're starting to get into again because, obviously, React became a beast of its own, trying to do a whole lot more else. And I do think things like Next JS, like, give it some proper guardrails and make it a little more like, oh, yeah, this makes sense. There's some rules here. Follow that, and you get app that can be fast. But yeah, I think just relying on servers to do a lot of the load for us and saying HTML did a pretty good job to a degree.

Chase Granberry: [24:12] Well, and in reality, how much JavaScript do we really need on the page in 95% of cases is like, honestly, not that much.

Chuck Carpenter: [24:23] Right.

Robbie Wagner: [24:25] I need a button that submits a form.

Chuck Carpenter: [24:27] Exactly.

Chase Granberry: [24:30] I'm kind of like an old guy about all that, but.

Chuck Carpenter: [24:34] We both limped in on canes in here, so I understand.

Chase Granberry: [24:38] But no, it's really interesting and meaning in the Elixir world. I've been playing a lot with Live view, which is like basically divs of HTML over WebSockets, the Logflare kind of search interface is actually written in live view. Actually, I've had really great experiences with it and so being Elixir. I'm on, a, I mean, I run the logs, but then I'm also helping the real-time team out, and there's some edge cases there that we need to figure out. So real-time, basically what it does is you can subscribe to changes from your database, and then you can get those over WebSockets. Essentially. Imagine getting like a user record over a WebSocket when it's been updated, and so then you can take that record and then update the data on the page with it.

Chuck Carpenter: [25:30] Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [25:31] And we give you the building blocks of that. And so we give you basically the raw stream, and we give you the user record, and then you just attach a listener to it and then do what you will, essentially.

Chuck Carpenter: [25:43] Yeah. The Phoenix creator, he used to work for Dockyard, right? Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [25:47] Chris McCord.

Chuck Carpenter: [25:49] Yeah, I remember reading some of that stuff and think it was very cool. I only played in Elixir very briefly. We have some open-source electron app and the API of it. I was like. I'll try Elixir for that.

Chase Granberry: [26:01] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:01] It was cool. And then, I found that it was overkill for a basic API that I could do in serverless. I was like, probably put it over there just because of the deployment process and maintenance for a very simple Jason API.

Robbie Wagner: [26:16] You really just wanted to play with serverless, is what it was.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:19] I wanted to play with all the things it was first Elixir, and then I was like, now I want to get into serverless because I had done a different serverless thing. So I wanted to do some more internally with a client where I had to do like a GraphQL server on serverless. Oh, you did all this here? Okay. Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [26:36] On like Cloudflare workers or Lambda or like Lambda.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:41] Lambda, yeah.

Chase Granberry: [26:41] Okay.

Chuck Carpenter: [26:42] But I did it in both of those things.

Chase Granberry: [26:45] There's still some edge cases with the real-time servers where you can basically get the record from the API, and then you start listening to the real-time feed if that feed if that record is busy, for instance, like we haven't completely tied together the restful and the real-time service to where you're guaranteed to get all the change. There could be like a split second where maybe you don't get one change from the record, but you always get the latest one, and so it's not people you can typically deal with the edge cases.

Chuck Carpenter: [27:20] I can't imagine the SLA on that is like a few milliseconds.

Chase Granberry: [27:25] Yeah, there isn't a super strict SLA around it. We don't have a ton of guarantees currently, but we're working on that. That's kind of what I'm getting at is like there's some hard things to figure out, but it's going to be interesting to help improve it, and it actually works really well right now. It's all still kind of like newer. Right?

Chuck Carpenter: [27:53] Right. Yeah. There you go. I guess that's kind of one of the beauties too, is like. Obviously, you have a pool of paying customers, you have a pool of customers dealing with open source projects and things like that too, or like the try before you buy kind of subset too. And so you get a lot of data, I would imagine.

Chase Granberry: [28:10] Yeah, we get a lot of data. We get a lot of sign-ups and so we've had to scale stuff very quickly.

Chuck Carpenter: [28:19] Interesting. Robbie signed up.

Chase Granberry: [28:21] What do you think, Robbie?

Robbie Wagner: [28:23] Yeah, I was just going to say, I complain that you can only sign up with GitHub, and you have to use the one main email that's on your GitHub. So like.

Chuck Carpenter: [28:37] Yeah, that was.

Chase Granberry: [28:38] I think that's fixed. I think they just pushed that.

Robbie Wagner: [28:40] Okay.

Chase Granberry: [28:40] I think they like literally.

Chuck Carpenter: [28:44] This was like a couple of months ago or whatever when we were first booting up and starting this project, and that was a challenge.

Robbie Wagner: [28:51] Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [28:52] Yeah. You can sign up with an email and password now or GitHub account.

Chuck Carpenter: [28:56] Okay, nice.

Robbie Wagner: [28:58] Nice, yeah, so I would like it to still be GitHub, but let me use the third email address on my GitHub. I want to be complex about it.

Chuck Carpenter: [29:06] Anyone existing on their user kind of thing.

Chase Granberry: [29:09] Yeah, of course, you do.

Chuck Carpenter: [29:11] Of course he does. Exactly. You've now officially met Robbie Wagner.

Chase Granberry: [29:17] Sweet.

Chuck Carpenter: [29:19] I would like the edge case to work. What? I could click a couple of buttons that workaround I don't want to do that.

Chase Granberry: [29:27] Use the email form and then use the third email that you use on Github account.

Chuck Carpenter: [29:31] Right.

Robbie Wagner: [29:31] Yea, that's true. I could do that.

Chase Granberry: [29:35] You could do that. I guess.

Chuck Carpenter: [29:37] So yeah. So we talked a lot about the, I guess this is like more upcoming features too, that we're talking about in terms of the real-time and.

Chase Granberry: [29:48] Yeah, the real-time is there, but there's just things tightened up a little bit, and it's getting there for sure. And even like with us login form, I mean, we get a lot of people signing up, but we're getting more and more enterprises and more and more agencies, and they obviously don't want to sign up with their one.

Chuck Carpenter: [30:08] Right? Yeah, that's how we discovered kind. Of the fix of it is just that I've had GitHub forever, and for a while, I just had it more under a personal email. Because as you move through your career, you don't want that attached to a temporary email, potentially short-term email in comparison. But then I'll add other company emails as I move through, and I was like, oh yeah, because let's see, if I do this, it fixes this thing. And then it allowed me to get in, and then, later on, I was able to just switch it back, and everything's fine. But yeah, I can see, like, from an agency perspective, we're. Signing up to try new stuff because we want to know working with a client and what their goals are. This could be a good product suggestion because, like I said, it solves a lot of the all zero problems. But then plus, plus plus and you're not down the Google Firebase you're not locked into, which I think is a massive.

Chase Granberry: [31:04] Product that they are going to cancel, maybe.

Chuck Carpenter: [31:09] Are going to cancel ora s things scale, you never know. Like VCs down the line, want them to use auth from ABC.

Chase Granberry: [31:15] Well, it's just like there's so many blind spots. I think one of the limitations is like you can only update the document once a second, basically on Firebase. And like.

Chuck Carpenter: [31:23] Right.

Chase Granberry: [31:23] That is not fast enough in a lot of cases. Right?

Chuck Carpenter: [31:26] Yeah. I don't think that gets you out of POC in a lot of use cases unless you just don't care about that very much in yours, in your MVP. But at a certain point you're still going to scale out of that.

Chase Granberry: [31:38] Yeah, but yeah, we've been doing more and more for the Enterprise Agency use case, and we're like SOC2 now, so that's huge. And we're looking at HIPAA, and that's going to be coming soon, and not really looking forward to HIPAA. We're going to do HIPAA.

Robbie Wagner: [32:04] Sounds like a hard one.

Chuck Carpenter: [32:05] Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [32:06] So, yeah, all those boxes are going to be checked, and SLAs are going to be signed and all that stuff. So it's coming along for sure.

Chuck Carpenter: [32:16] Very cool.

Robbie Wagner: [32:16] Just don't have a SSH password of like 1234 or something, and then you're fine.

Chuck Carpenter: [32:22] Welcome one, two, three, or password one, two, three. I think that's the one.

Chase Granberry: [32:25] I mean, we can only do so much to protect you from yourself.

Robbie Wagner: [32:32] Isn't that what happened to PlayStation? The root password or something was like 1234?

Chase Granberry: [32:38] Yeah, probably.

Robbie Wagner: [32:39] So they hacked the entire PlayStation Network and took everyone's credit cards and stuff.

Chase Granberry: [32:45] Don't doubt it.

Chuck Carpenter: [32:48] So you've mentioned that you have, I guess it's maybe on the back burner, a drone building, and racing hobby. What do you do? What do you do here other than follow logs?

Chase Granberry: [33:00] Well, yeah, I used to. Before, I had kids mostly, and I had a lot more time, and it was really like when all that stuff kind of just saw a video on YouTube. I was like. It's cool you want to do that. And I don't know. I just started figuring it out. It's a lot of fun, but it's time-consuming because you build them, and you crash them and build them.

Chuck Carpenter: [33:24] It's expensive, and you have to rebuild them.

Chase Granberry: [33:26] Yeah, but it really is like a lot of fun once you can fly them pretty well because you got the goggles on, and you're going 80 miles an hour through trees and stuff, and you don't hit them. It's a lot of fun.

Chuck Carpenter: [33:42] Yeah. We actually have a colleague slash friend who lives here that does first-person view racing.

Chase Granberry: [33:49] Oh, really?

Chuck Carpenter: [33:49] Yeah, so I've seen a couple of those videos and whatever else. I'm dizzy.

Chase Granberry: [33:55] Somehow, you don't get, like, when you're in it, you don't really get dizzy. I'm not sure how, but it's cool. That's a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to kind of getting back into that when the kids are a little older, and they can kind of do that.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:10] So what do you do now, then? What's yours now?

Chase Granberry: [34:13] My now is kids. I work, and I have two young kids. They're six and four.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:21] Oh, it's funny. Mine are six and three.

Chase Granberry: [34:23] Oh, nice.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:24] Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [34:24] Cool.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:25] And you're in the neighborhood. I wonder if yeah.

Chase Granberry: [34:26] Where do you live?

Chuck Carpenter: [34:28] 40th and Indian school.

Chase Granberry: [34:29] Okay.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:29] Here's my address.

Chase Granberry: [34:31] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:33] I'll tell you that offline, and then we can talk about specific schools and whatever else. But it was a similar neighborhood.

Chase Granberry: [34:38] Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's a lot of fun, but it's a lot of work. They're demanding, for sure.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:45] Yeah. Robbie has seven months now, so not newborn.

Robbie Wagner: [34:50] Eight month old. As of yesterday.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:52] Eight month old. Oh, my gosh.

Chase Granberry: [34:55] Easy, man.

Chuck Carpenter: [34:57] Other than the lack of sleep.

Chase Granberry: [34:59] Yeah. I just laugh when my friends with one kid, like, talking about how difficult it is or whatever.

Chuck Carpenter: [35:08] Yeah. See, I closed up shop before they outnumbered me. This is a good place. They have their friends. They have each other a little bit, whatever. We replaced ourselves. I'm in a happy place.

Chase Granberry: [35:20] Solid number.

Chuck Carpenter: [35:20] Yeah. Okay.

Chase Granberry: [35:23] So, yeah, I mean, frankly, other than that, I had, like, an old 1970 Jeep. I take that offroading.

Chuck Carpenter: [35:32] Yeah. That seems a substantial hobby.

Chase Granberry: [35:35] Yeah. I mean, I'm not the one that works on it, but it's fun. And I can take the boys and just stick them in the back seat, and they'll surprisingly last for, like, a four-hour trail ride.

Chuck Carpenter: [35:51] Oh wow. That's good. That's fun.

Chase Granberry: [35:53] It's a lot of fun. And there's, like, a million things to do like that around Phoenix.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:00] There are, like, hiking, biking, offroading, and vehicles. Lots of that.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:06] Robbie just sold a 60. What? Scout.

Robbie Wagner: [36:09] So there's some debate on this. I was told it was a 65 Scout, and apparently, they didn't make a Scout 800 until 66. So it's a 67. I think we determined by the end of the sale.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:24] What does the title say?

Robbie Wagner: [36:27] 65. It says 65 from Texas. And it said 65 on my Virginia one, so I'm like, look, I'm not trying to screw anyone over here. This is what I thought it was, but I just don't know what I'm talking about.

Chase Granberry: [36:38] All that stuff with old cars, they just don't really care. And they just kind of put whatever.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:43] And he had a restomod, too, anyway, so a lot of it changed up.

Robbie Wagner: [36:47] Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [36:48] It doesn't matter. If it's Ferrari or something.

Chuck Carpenter: [36:52] Yeah. Matters if you're a Lamborghini guy and it's a Ferrari it matters. I learned this a few years ago. They hate each other. I have no idea.

Robbie Wagner: [37:00] Really?

Chase Granberry: [37:01] Did you call a Ferrari a Lamborghini?

Chuck Carpenter: [37:04] No. Okay. I was in Italy, and a friend and I, we rented a Ferrari for the day.

Chase Granberry: [37:10] Cool.

Chuck Carpenter: [37:11] And we're driving around like Madonna and stuff. Go to the Ferrari museum. They're like, yes, I'm here. We'll drive really fast to the Lamborghini museum. You try to pull in, and they were like, oh no, Ferrari, you park out there. That's literally what he said. I'm probably not going to park out there. So, yeah, I guess the guy who started Lamborghini was an engineer for Ferrari, broke off, started his own company in the it was kind of.

Chase Granberry: [37:35] There's a new movie on it on, actually, Lamborghini. That's on Netflix, I believe. I've been meaning to watch it. Looks good. I think it's on Netflix.

Chuck Carpenter: [37:44] I would definitely watch that because Ford versus Ferrari.

Robbie Wagner: [37:48] Is it called we shouldn't make SUVs?

Chuck Carpenter: [37:50] Yeah, you know what, they made an SUV in the 70s, though.

Robbie Wagner: [37:54] Oh, really?

Chuck Carpenter: [37:55] Actually, yeah. This is not their first SUV.

Robbie Wagner: [37:57] So there's precedence.

Chuck Carpenter: [37:58] Yeah, there's some precedence there. So while I kind of make fun of that, and for some odd reason, here in Scottsdale, Arizona, we have a ton of them.

Chase Granberry: [38:08] I've actually seen somebody launch them over like jump like. How do you that gap? They like gap stuff.

Chuck Carpenter: [38:17] Like 22s and like little.

Chase Granberry: [38:21] They look pretty legit.

Chuck Carpenter: [38:22] I'm a convert on the Cayenne because I've seen how off-road capable the Cayennes are. The old ones were incredible off-road. The Lambo one is super low profile and has these, like 22s with low profile.

Chase Granberry: [38:35] Yeah, I don't know if the tires would really do that. Well, you'd almost have to almost have to do like a Porsche 911 Dakar thing to it where you just put little thicker tires.

Chuck Carpenter: [38:49] Yes. So he's referencing where Porsche is actually released, where you can order their safari edition. So a lot of people do safari builds on 911s through the years. And they even raced some and did official internal ones. But now, I don't know if you saw it. You can order a 911 to-car edition.

Chase Granberry: [39:08] Well, that's what kind of made me think of it because yesterday I saw photos of it, and I'm a big fan of the off-road 911. Look, I think it looks totally cool. If I had a shit ton of money to blow, then.

Chuck Carpenter: [39:25] Everybody sign up with Supabase help Chase out.

Chase Granberry: [39:28] Yeah, but yeah, the off-roading thing is cool. It's a lot of fun.

Chuck Carpenter: [39:33] Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [39:33] My neighbor has a Bronco, like an old Bronco, that is in good shape.

Chuck Carpenter: [39:37] I heard those are dumb.

Robbie Wagner: [39:40] He's saying that because I have ordered one after I sold the Scout, so I'm waiting on it now.

Chase Granberry: [39:45] Oh, nice. The new one.

Chuck Carpenter: [39:47] No, not a new one. Like restomod build on an old one.

Chase Granberry: [39:51] Okay. Sick.

Robbie Wagner: [39:53] Last I heard, it was supposed to be a 74, but I want it to be a 72 or earlier because that's the last year you can get vintage plates in Virginia.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:03] Oh, really?

Chase Granberry: [40:03] Okay.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:04] That's interesting.

Robbie Wagner: [40:04] Yeah, you can get antique plates, but like, from 72 and back, they just have the year, and you just never have to put any stickers on them or anything. It's just like 72, and you're done.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:14] I feel like out here in the Wild West, it's like 25 years regardless. I saw, like, a 90 Civic recently with historic plates on it.

Robbie Wagner: [40:23] Yeah. So you can do some of that.

Chase Granberry: [40:26] I think it's only, like, 20 years, right?

Chuck Carpenter: [40:28] Yeah. It's 20 or 25 years from now.

Chase Granberry: [40:31] Yeah. We're just old now.

Robbie Wagner: [40:32] Yeah, exactly.

Robbie Wagner: [40:33] Yeah. If people think, like, a 2002 car is a classic car, it's not.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:40] Yeah, not historic at all.

Chase Granberry: [40:42] 2002 that's pushing, that's really pushing.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:44] In the 90s.

Chase Granberry: [40:45] Early nineties.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:46] I don't know. Yeah. Early 90s Supra or something.

Chase Granberry: [40:49] Yes.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:50] Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [40:51] I think it should have to be made of sheet metal for it to count. Like, if it's got all this, like, airbags and stuff that breaks off on purpose.

Chuck Carpenter: [40:59] Only lap belts. You only get lap belts. That's it.

Robbie Wagner: [41:02] You must get cut in half when you wreck.

Chase Granberry: [41:05] Well, that's why I like the so it's 1970 Wagoneer, and 74 73 is when they started the wood grain. They made them before even they did any of the faux wood grain.

Chuck Carpenter: [41:20] I had no idea.

Chase Granberry: [41:21] But 73, 74 was when they started kind of like the plastic interior kind of stuff. The model that I have is like, I mean, it looks really, like, retro, and everything is metal.

Chuck Carpenter: [41:34] When you say Jeep, I just automatically assume, like, a CJ or something.

Chase Granberry: [41:38] No? Yeah. I went with a Wagoneer here because I had the four-door thing, and the family and I found it on the Internet. I was looking around. My father-in-law had one of the 80s ones. And he actually had two of them, and he loved them. So I started looking at Wagoneers, and I realized I had these very early editions that were a bit more, I don't know, just kind of like raw and not, I mean, they were the original SUV, literally, but it's like it's not like the bells and whistles cush thing that you think of.

Robbie Wagner: [42:13] Right.

Chase Granberry: [42:13] And you just don't see them. They were a lot less expensive than, like, a Bronco or something, right?

Chuck Carpenter: [42:20] Yeah. So it's basically like a station wagon on steroids.

Chase Granberry: [42:23] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:25] Like that. The Griswold would have done way better. Picked one of those. Fun fact my wife's maiden name is Griswold.

Chase Granberry: [42:32] Really.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:32] That's why I like to reference.

Chase Granberry: [42:34] Oh, man, that is amazing.

Robbie Wagner: [42:36] With that and the general area of where you live.

Chase Granberry: [42:39] Tell me you do the Christmas lights, the Griswold Christmas lights.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:44] Yeah, exactly. You should definitely do that.

Chuck Carpenter: [42:47] T-shirts we got, all the stuff we play it up. It's fine. Because anytime someone learns that, they always ask that question right away too. Oh, like vacation? Yes, exactly like that.

Chase Granberry: [42:57] Yeah. So, Robbie, where are you going? Virginia. Do you go wheeling in Virginia, kind of everywhere or.

Robbie Wagner: [43:04] No. So I like to have off-road vehicles that I don't take off-road. It's just for looks.

Chase Granberry: [43:10] Okay, that's fair.

Robbie Wagner: [43:12] But I do live on a ten-acre farm right now, so I could drive it just around my property if I want, but.

Chase Granberry: [43:17] Cool. Yeah, I like them, and it's been in the works for multiple years, but it's kind of like at a point where the more I drive it now, just stuff is breaking, I have to fix it again.

Robbie Wagner: [43:33] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [43:34] What do you think about there's a decent amount of companies that want to keep classic cars on the road, and they're doing crate motors and EV conversions and that kind of thing.

Chase Granberry: [43:43] Oh, I love it. Mine was a resto-mod and I actually put a rebuilt big block like Buick 455 in it. I wanted to keep it retro, but I really do like putting newer engines in it, like full-on resto-mods. But even still, it's not unless you pay top dollar. I mean, it's a car a couple of guys put together, right? Compared to like an assembly line sort of situation. And so you're going to get stuff that is just not quite going to last. Basically, you got to tie a few bolts every few years, and belts aren't going to last quite as long and all that kind of stuff.

Chuck Carpenter: [44:23] Definitely hobbyists versus physicists.

Chase Granberry: [44:25] Yeah. Have a good relationship with a mechanic if you're going to get an old car.

Chuck Carpenter: [44:30] Anybody with an old car, that's always the case.

Chase Granberry: [44:32] Right.

Chuck Carpenter: [44:33] I went through times of that.

Robbie Wagner: [44:36] It is funny how many things can be like clanking around and falling off, and it still works. Like we don't need half of these things. Just take them all off.

Chase Granberry: [44:47] Well, just how simple it is, actually. You can see everything. You open hood, and you can literally see everything.

Chuck Carpenter: [44:55] Yeah. The weird plastic coverings don't exist.

Chase Granberry: [44:58] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [44:59] Kind of nice, actually.

Chase Granberry: [45:00] It's just a bunch more. Especially when you work on computers all day and everything you do is like virtual. It just feels cool to it's more tactile to operate something that's mechanical.

Chuck Carpenter: [45:12] Work on cars. 73 Super Beetle. I spent like $2,500 on a car with the idea of, like, I'll drive this around. If things break, things will be pretty cheap. I'm going to get some books and some tools, and if I screw something up, it's also pretty cheap. They just replaced the whole thing, and yeah, the whole idea of it is there's these tiny explosions in this metal box that you trust.

Chase Granberry: [45:38] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [45:41] The only thing I never had a friend who was a mechanic who helped me do brakes. I was like, stopping seems more important than going, and I'm just going to get help on that. If I can't go, that's okay. If I can go and I can't stop, that seems like a big.

Chase Granberry: [45:57] Honestly, the combustion engine is just like a marvel, frankly, that they figured out how to do that.

Chuck Carpenter: [46:05] Yeah.

Chase Granberry: [46:06] And then it works for how long? It does. I mean, you're talking about like three 4000 revolutions per second at this point. Like 15 years, 200,000 miles, and 300,000 miles.

Chuck Carpenter: [46:21] Very aggressive process. I don't know if you know the Oatmeal that got. I think his name is Matt. Matthew Inman

Chase Granberry: [46:28] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [46:28] Did the Oatmeal.

Chase Granberry: [46:29] Back in the day. Is he still around?

Chuck Carpenter: [46:31] Yeah, he makes a bunch of games and stuff, and we have a couple of games, and he had this like when he switched to get a Tesla because his big thing was I want to get explosions further away from my balls. Yeah. And it was just like the distance of explosions to my balls. And this is very advantageous to that.

Chase Granberry: [46:50] Just put a huge chemical reaction under your butt, and it's fine. Definitely better.

Robbie Wagner: [46:56] Better if you light it on fire. Firefighters can't put it out.

Chuck Carpenter: [47:02] So there's that, I guess, too.

Chase Granberry: [47:03] It's a trade-off. Everything in life is a trade-off.

Chuck Carpenter: [47:04] There's always a pro and a con. There's always a pro and a con. I don't know what the percentages are on one or the other, but I was like, oh, that seems reasonable. That's why I like those rear-engine cars further away from my balls. A lot of fun way back there. Good with that?

Chuck Carpenter: [47:23] Yeah. It's actually incredible how hot motors get and how hot like old cars are. Because there's literally a piece of sheet metal like that thick between you and this motor that's putting off 250 degrees externally. 250 degrees or something like that.

Chuck Carpenter: [47:45] Right.

Chase Granberry: [47:46] It gets warm, and they kind of did the interior to where you have mats under your feet, but everything else is kind of like just exposed metal. So my kids will like put their foot it doesn't burn them.

Chuck Carpenter: [47:59] No, but it's hot.

Chase Granberry: [48:01] So they leave it there for a second. They're like.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:05] That's how it works.

Robbie Wagner: [48:06] Don't need heat, though.

Chase Granberry: [48:07] Yeah, that's what it would have been. That's what it's like.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:09] That's true. They have those heat exchangers. They just follow it through and do the inside. I remember I had a 74 Porsche 914, and in the winter, I would still leave the target top off because I lived here. Kind of never rained or whatever else. But at night, you just put the windows up, turn the heat on, and you are good to go. It's amazing. So you can have convertibles in the winter?

Chase Granberry: [48:31] Yeah. Because the whole thing is just a big heater.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:35] Yeah. And I trusted that. Better or worse? Hard to say.

Chase Granberry: [48:42] Yeah.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:44] Cool. Should we wrap it up? Yeah.

Robbie Wagner: [48:46] Is there anything we missed about Supabase? Anything you would like to plug personally? Just anything at all before we end?

Chase Granberry: [48:53] No, I think it sounded pretty good.

Chuck Carpenter: [48:57] Just use the logs feature. That's what Chase is saying. His value is based on the logs.

Chase Granberry: [49:04] Sign up for Logflare. Well, actually, it is going to be like it's a separate thing right now, and it's going to continue to be a separate thing. I think we're going to integrate everything.

Chuck Carpenter: [49:15] But you don't necessarily want to take that away from other applications.

Chase Granberry: [49:19] Well, no, we have a decent amount of revenue, not insignificant amount of revenue. And there is actually, like, if you do really want to sell hosts, then you should ship your logs somewhere else. And if your Supabase interface goes down, you want to be able to figure out what happened. And so it really doesn't make sense. And actually, Logflare was like business source, like BSL licensed before we joined Supabase, but it's actually Apache 2 now. You could self-host it under a BSL license, but it's really self-hostable now. And we're actually improving that story because right now, you don't get the logs locally. When you span up Supabase locally for dev purposes, you get them, but you've got to go into Docker and look at them in Docker. And it's not ideal, but hopefully, by launch, we have it all packaged nicely to where you download Supabase locally. You get everything, including the logs, and you get the same logs interface.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:29] Feels like there's a Kubernetes story.

Chase Granberry: [50:33] But Docker composed.

Chuck Carpenter: [50:34] Right.

Chase Granberry: [50:35] Locally.

Chase Granberry: [50:36] But I mean, yeah, I mean, there's probably some self-hostable Kubernetes thing that probably makes it a lot easier to do. But I think there's a helm chart floating around for all Supabase if somebody wants to mess with that for Logflare. Also, I think it's not a bad idea, but also the point of Logflare, too, is that we want to provide really affordable logging. And so, ideally, you should just use us and not deal with the self-hosting piece.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:12] Boom. There you go.

Chase Granberry: [51:15] You should just use us.

Robbie Wagner: [51:20] Well, thanks, everybody, for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe, and we will catch you next time.

Chuck Carpenter: [51:28] Thanks for listening to Whiskey Web and Whatnot. This podcast is brought to you Ship Shape, and produced by Podcast Royale. If you like this episode, consider sharing it with a friend or two and leave us a rating or maybe a review. As long as it's good.

Robbie Wagner: [51:43] You can subscribe to future episodes on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more info about shipshape and this show, check out our website at shipshape.io.